Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    The Good: His defense has improved a lot. His athleticism has surpassed all my personal expectations and surprised folks around the league. He played extremely well in the summer league and in the G- league for what it's worth. Heís hitting 75% on free throws.

    The Bad: Dude cannot get on the floor. When the Jazz need some scoring punch, they lean on George Niang before GA. Allen is making 27% of his 3 pointers, which I donít get because heís wide open on most of them, or heís getting great screens.

    The Ugly: despite being a terrific leaper and dunker, he hardly ever attacks the rim, and on defense - he has shown signs of his overly aggressive physical play tendencies.

    Well I donít want to rule out the Jazz development program and their coaching. In fairness I didnít think Joe Ingles or Royce OíNeale would amount to much. But over the last 3 games, Royce is averaging 15 ppg and shooting 85% from 3 point land. But our system seems tailor made for someone with Grayson Allenís skill set - so why is getting half as many minutes and points as rookie Rodney Hood?

  • #2
    Re: Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    I wonder how much of it is mental. He's seems to have a pretty quick leash in most of the games I've seen.
    Rudy Gobert: "Frankly, I like it there and I like the project."

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

      I agree his defense has improved but it is still not what I would call good, especially in the team concept. And if he is shooting 27% from 3 then not sure what he really brings to the table. He is also stuck at a pretty deep position. Donovan is going to take a ton of minutes and Korver needs his time. Between Rubio, Exum, Donovan, Korver, Royce, and Ingles, there just isn't a spot to reliably pull minutes from. Niang gets in because he plays the 4 not because he is particularly good.

      It was really too bad for him that when Rubio and Exum were both out that he was also hurt for a big chunk of time. He would have probably gotten decent burn then.

      I think KY hit the nail on the head that the biggest problem is his minutes are inconsistent and often in quick bursts. He obviously is better than a 27% shooter from 3, but it is tough to find your stroke when you don't get routine minutes but tough to find routine minutes for him given the guys in front of him and how he has performed in the time he has gotten.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

        Originally posted by KYJazzFan View Post
        I wonder how much of it is mental. He's seems to have a pretty quick leash in most of the games I've seen.
        Yeah, it's too bad we couldn't have got him and Donovan in the same season. DM spead up our re-build in a big way. For myself, I'm in wait and see mode. Right now he reminds me of Dante a little bit, in that Dante of last season and a couple of seasons ago - he didn't look great, but you never really doubted if he was an NBA player because those moments where he was doing good - there was no doubt why he was a 1st round pick. But, time will tell.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

          The utility of players like Royce, Ingles, and DM eats up most of the PT he would otherwise get.

          I think heíll be a rotation player in a couple years.
          How do you score under 35 in a half? Utah's tank is too strong -Raptors fan

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

            Guards on our team better than Allen: Mitchell, Rubio, Ingles, ONeal, Exum, Neto, Korver.

            Guards on our team that Allen is better than: (This space left intentionally blank)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

              Hated the Grayson Allen draft pick. He was literally the one player in Utah's draft range that I absolutely did not want the Jazz to pick. I warmed up to him a bit during Summer League, as he showed more athleticism and a more complete game than I expected, despite not shooting the ball particularly well. Donovan's supposed endorsement of the pick helped me feel better, too.

              Since then, I've reverted back to my original position. GA has done very little in his limited court time this season to prove he's anything more than a marginal NBA player. While it's too early to be sure, I feel we may have wasted another 1st round pick. Hope I'm wrong...

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                I've watch way too many career paths to put too much stock into a rookie year, but I do find it concerning that's he struggling so much as a 23-year-old four-year collegian.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                  That's exactly it, Weber. I would feel very differently if he were 19 or 20 and entered the draft after his freshman year. But that fact that he is older than Mitchell, the same age as Dante, and played 4 years of college ball at a top program without really showing any real progress after his sophomore year -- that worries me. That's exactly why I didn't want to Jazz to draft him.

                  I would love it if anyone can point to a 4-year college player with a similar statistical regression in his final two years in school who went on to have a strong NBA career. That might make me feel better.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                    Originally posted by CactusKing04 View Post
                    I would love it if anyone can point to a 4-year college player with a similar statistical regression in his final two years in school who went on to have a strong NBA career. That might make me feel better.
                    The only name that popped into mind as a 4-year college player with a rough first few years in the league is JJ Redick, but he didn't regress his final two years in school like Allen.

                    I got nothing.
                    Shrimp Mamba

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                      I remember hearing that GA was asked to play a different role in each of his 4 seasons at Duke. That made him a great team player but didn't allow him to be good at one position.

                      I'm hoping he takes a big jump next season, but I have no idea. :huh

                      I think you enjoy the game more if you don't know the rules. Anyway you're on the same wavelength as the referees. ~Jonathan Davies, 1995

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                        Yeah, he played a lot more PG his last couple years.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                          I'm not really sure what he is. He will be a role player in the NBA but I don't he has an elite skill to earn playing time. This summer will be huge for him.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                            Originally posted by TrueAg View Post
                            I'm not really sure what he is. He will be a role player in the NBA but I don't he has an elite skill to earn playing time. This summer will be huge for him.
                            Usually role players are those who have a skill they can hang their hat on to earn time. Maybe not "elite" but definitely significantly above average. That's the role they play. I felt like for Grayson, his path to playing time in Utah had to be hitting the three consistently. Something I'm pretty sure I called out shortly after the pick stating that I didn't think Grayson would get minutes this year.

                            http://www.jazzhoops.com/forum/showt...l=1#post397427
                            So I think he's got a ways to go to becoming a rotational player with the Jazz this upcoming year. I don't think he's going to just be given minutes. He's going to have to shoot more consistently in order to play. Barring injury, players currently ahead of him competing for minutes at the 1/2 this year (with an estimate of how many minutes they probably should be playing of the 96 minutes available at the 1/2) - Mitchell (32), Rubio (30), Exum (24), Royce (20). That already has the Jazz over by 10 minutes that need to come from another position. Assuming they're healthy, is Grayson this year ready to play over Mitchell (no), Rubio (no), Exum (no) or Royce (probably not).

                            Two, I don't think just being a rotation player at 21 means a player is a "steal" let alone the steal of the draft. I don't think every draft has a steal. To me, a steal is when you look back at the draft and say "Can you believe the Jazz got Rudy Gobert at pick 27?!? What a steal!" Looking back and saying "man, the Bulls were amazing to steal Bobby Portis and his 13 points a game at pick 22... what a steal!" No knock on Portis - nice player. But steal? Don't see it.

                            I do think Allen will get to the point of being a rotational player in Utah. He'll probably have a nice career. He seems like a hard worker and a guy who plays the game the right way (sans tripping). He's a competitor and I love that. If he can shoot at a 40% clip from the 3, I can see a way for him to earn minutes sooner than later. But I just don't think he's ahead of guys the Jazz have slated to be rotation players for the next few years in the backcourt. I hope he proves me wrong and turns into a 14x NBA Champion and MVP in Utah. I'd love nothing more (well, maybe I'd love it more if Jimmer came to the Jazz and did those things, but you get the idea).
                            My optimism for the pick is lower now than it was at the time that was written. Can he get there? Maybe. But he's definitely not as close as I think any of us would like for him to be. Going back to my original post in the same thread, I'll reiterate some of the optimism I shared:

                            First and foremost, the kid is a competitor.
                            Two, the Duke connection. Given Snyder and Coach K's close relationship, I think the Jazz were able to do their due diligence and feel comfortable with what they saw.

                            Three, I think he's a coachable player. And I think we have one of the best coaches in the league at maximizing players strengths and putting them in a position to succeed. I look at specific players Coach Q and Coach Bryant have helped put them in positions to succeed and build from there, and I think they get a lot from players. Some examples of what I'm talking about:

                            Rudy: The Jazz understood he was good at being a rim runner and maximized that. Then they added the screen to his game, and he's one of the best screen assisters in the league. And then they've built from there. Is Rudy a huge scorer? No. But he absolutely has a positive impact on the offensive end
                            Joe Ingles: He started with the corner 3 and once he mastered, Q added responsibilities to his game. He's a playmaker. He's not who Gordon Hayward was, but Q has had him do different things that suit his game better.
                            Donovan: Super coachable and look what happened with him. He started the year as a 6th man, but he learned, took suggestions and he took off. It wasn't all at once, but Q had him work on his spida-spin and it's one of the best moves in the game right now. He didn't have that at the start of the year, but he learned and grew and got better. And when teams started to adjust, Q and staff worked with him on the adjustments and the counters.


                            What I hope is that the same trend follows with Allen - that Coach Q has a plan for what skill (or skills) he sees that he has and knows specifically how he wants to use him. Is he an adequate shot from the outside? Yes. Is he an able passer? Yes. In my mind, those two check big boxes for the system. I think tied to point two, is he coachable? I don't think the Jazz would've taken him if they felt he wasn't. Coachable guys seem like the ones who have the ability to succeed in Q's system. And assuming Q has a plan in place, then I'm starting to feel a little bit better - almost optimistic - about the pick.
                            Maybe a year in the league riding the pine and getting a feel for the game while Q understands his abilities and how he can fit in will be what he needs to assign him the thing(s) he needs to focus on to earn some time. But right now, it's not overly rosy.
                            "We can't put diapers on him one night, and a jockstrap the next"
                            Forgive my spelling. Post was likely typed with my thumbs.
                            www.twitter.com/sizzle801

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Grayson Allen - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                              He can be a late bloomer rotational player. Possibly a backup point and may find his stroke. If he does that, he'll be a playing for a long time.

                              Now that we are in contention, Quin has a very tight rope. He will get opportunities in blowouts or if players are injured or to be rested, or if he has got his stroke back, because we are desperately in need of bench gunners.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X