Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The official Donovan Mitchell thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread

    Originally posted by joncolton View Post
    [A]nalysts were criticizing John and Karl for being chokers long before they ever made a Finals appearance, back in the late 80's and early 90's they were being criticized for not being take over players when the game is on the line - and it's a valid criticism. Maybe part of it is Sloan, but to my mind - John Stockton taking a contested shot has more of a chance of going in that a wide open David Benoit three pointer.
    I certainly trust Stockton's on-court decision-making than any analyst. I remember analysts criticizing both LeBron and Kobe over the years for not taking over games themselves. I suppose that means neither of them had "it" either.

    As far as YOUR criticism of Stockton passing to Benoit, I assume you're talking about Game 5 against Houston in 1995? Have you re-watched that game recently? Nearly every big shot in the last 2 minutes was taken by Stockton or Malone, including a made 3-pointer by Malone with 6.5 seconds to go. Benoit took two 3-pointers in the last few minutes of the game, but Stockton couldn't have done anything different on either play. With around 3:30 to go, Stockton was double-teamed in the corner by Kenny Smith and Olajuwan with 5 seconds left on the shot clock and swung it to a wide-open Benoit, who missed (he shot .330 from 3-point land that season -- not great, but not terrible for 1995). Literally no other play he could have made. On the next play with 3:10 to go, Stockton drove the lane and ran into a triple-team, so he kicked it out to a wide open Benoit with 14 seconds left on the shot clock. Benoit took the shot rather than re-setting the offense. Again, not much else Stockton could have done there. I think you're a self-loathing Jazz fan who secretly resents the team's biggest stars for not quite getting over the hump. ;)
    "Things work out best for the people who make the best out of the way things work out."
    - John Wooden

    Comment


    • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread

      Originally posted by TheAntiFan View Post
      But they also ran into many inferior teams in the WC and never made it to the Finals. John and Karl didnt have just 2 peak years. We just want to forget the early playoff losses.
      I would respond again, but my response you quoted already covers it.

      Comment


      • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread

        Originally posted by WeberJazz View Post
        I would respond again, but my response you quoted already covers it.
        So they only had 2 peak years and the rest were learning and growing experiences. I dont buy that horse crap. Stars are stars for years. Their teams should compete for championships for many years, like Bird's Celtics, MJ's Bulls, Magic's Lakers, Duncan's Spurs. Malone and Stockon lost far too many times when they were favored in the playoffs. Neither could just take over a series.

        Comment


        • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread

          In game 6 of 1998 Finals Jordan was doubleteamed 3 times and Malone 19 times. Jordan as a guard used high post (harder to double team) and Malone used low post. It is harder for big man to take over. Stockton hit game winner in Sacramento series to avoid an elimination. Just a possession before Malone scored off same high picknroll play opening a way for later Stockton heroism. That series was won in game 5 on two corner threepointers of Shandon Anderson. Right play. It was observed that role players shoot better pct on open shots than stars on contested shots. Paxson and Kerr did it for Jordan. In my opinion the Jazz missed an offensive threat on center position. Just switch Longley and Ostertag and the result would be different.

          Comment


          • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread

            I agree, Jozef. Jazz were a center with any kind of scoring ability away from winning the title. That's why the failed Rony Siekley trade was so painful.

            Comment


            • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread

              Seikaly if healthy = Jazz threepeat

              Comment


              • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread

                Originally posted by TheAntiFan View Post
                So they only had 2 peak years and the rest were learning and growing experiences. I dont buy that horse crap. Stars are stars for years. Their teams should compete for championships for many years, like Bird's Celtics, MJ's Bulls, Magic's Lakers, Duncan's Spurs. Malone and Stockon lost far too many times when they were favored in the playoffs. Neither could just take over a series.
                They were stars for years, but I do like how you conveniently attributed those teams to one person! That was a well done red herring.

                Comment


                • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread

                  Originally posted by WeberJazz View Post
                  They were stars for years, but I do like how you conveniently attributed those teams to one person! That was a well done red herring.
                  I could have mentioned co-stars on those teams of course. Trying to dismiss my post just because I didn't is ridiculous.

                  But my point remains. Stockton and Malone were supposedly two of the greatest to ever play the game. They should have played for MULTIPLE titles, not just for a couple of seasons when they went up against MJ and Pippen. If it wasn't Jordan, it was Olajuwon's Rockets (and he certainly had other good teammates...to avoid you claiming a red herring problem). If it wasn't the Rocket's, it was getting upset and owned like ******* by the small-ball Warriors of the Don Nelson era. Or by any number of other teams. You could go back and look time after time when the Jazz were favored and upset by supposedly inferior teams. Now I'm not saying the Jazz should have gone to the Finals every year. Not even the Spurs have done that. But they underachieved, IMO. It's why I consider Sloan among the very good coaches in the game, but not elite. He had two great players and coached a long, long time. But even Larry H. came close to firing him a few times. I guess there's that; he was routinely outcoached in the playoffs because he was so damn intransigent. So maybe Sloan bears as much responsibility for no championship as do the playoffs.

                  The knock on both Stockton and Malone will always be that they never fully rose to the occasion in the playoffs. Never ONCE did either take over and lead their team to a title. And we're talking about TWO of the greatest. Certainly MJ and Pippen were also two all-timers, but the Jazz should have had opportunities to face other teams besides just the Bulls in the Finals, but they didn't because they came up short in the WC playoffs time after time. Some players have the ability to come up big, some do not. Malone and Stockton couldn't consistently play at a higher level in the playoffs.
                  Last edited by TheAntiFan; 02-16-2018, 03:59 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread

                    They lacked a bench Hawkeye shooter.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread

                      Originally posted by echo77 View Post
                      They lacked a bench Hawkeye shooter.
                      They had a Hawkeye (Bobby Hansen) but he wasn't much of a shooter.
                      DUTY NOW FOR THE FUTURE!!

                      Comment


                      • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread

                        Cool Bobby Hansen story: when I was in HS back in the 80s, my buddies and I used to make the long trek from Cache Valley down to Jazz games with some degree of regularity. We would always go down and sit in then-owner Sam Battistone's courtside seats because he rarely showed up (sometimes he showed up at half-time, and we would move to the closest open seats). Since we were sitting right on the court, we regularly chatted up the players while they were stretching. Darrell Griffith and Bobby Hansen were particularly friendly. After one of the games, Bobby Hansen came over and offered my friend his game-worn sneakers. An odd but very kind gesture. I believe my friend still has those sneakers. Unfortunately, the demand for Bobby Hansen memorabilia is fairly modest . . . .
                        "Things work out best for the people who make the best out of the way things work out."
                        - John Wooden

                        Comment


                        • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread

                          He's still a hero in Iowa. They made the Final Four while he was there.
                          DUTY NOW FOR THE FUTURE!!

                          Comment


                          • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread



                            Kris


                            @5kl
                            2h2 hours ago
                            More
                            Donovan Mitchell's Game Scores are trending up while Ben Simmons' scores are trending down. Could explain his momentum for ROY.

                            Bottom line - while the rest of the league has been figuring out Ben Simmons, Donovan Mitchell is figuring out the league.
                            Last edited by joncolton; 02-16-2018, 12:44 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread

                              http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/stor...el-embiid-more

                              2. Donovan Mitchell | Utah Jazz

                              6-3 | SG | Age: 21.4

                              Jonathan Givony: Embiid was the big prize, and the guy I would have picked No. 1 as well, so obviously the draft starts here. What Mitchell is doing this year has been amazing, and I'd love to build my team around his talent and character. The fact that he can guard three positions, shoot off the dribble and bring real combo-guard skills has him looking like a franchise-caliber player.
                              FWIW, Joel Embiid was 1st. I can live with that.
                              "We can't put diapers on him one night, and a jockstrap the next"
                              Forgive my spelling. Post was likely typed with my thumbs.
                              www.twitter.com/sizzle801

                              Comment


                              • Re: The official Donovan Mitchell thread

                                Could become quite a tight race for ROY.
                                https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/2...yer-coach-year

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X