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Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

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  • #16
    Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

    Did Bird ever get shut down by someone like Kawhi Leonard?

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    • #17
      Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

      Chris Bosh may not be HOF but he's no slouch. I am surprised at how well he shoots the three at just the right time.

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      • #18
        Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

        Originally posted by Ody12 View Post
        Championships do not determine who is the best player. Bird played with three HOFs- McHale, Parish, and Dennis Johnson. Lebron has played with one (Wade). No Bosh is not a HOF.
        Ray Allen is a probable HOF.

        A better question would be how many HOFers are on the teams LeBron played against?
        Did he play against teams that had more HOFers than his did?

        He lost to the Mavericks, who had two.
        He beat the Thunder, who IMO had one.
        He beat and lost to the Spurs have at least three.

        LeBron;s '12 Heat had 2 HOFers and beat the Spurs who have at least 3.
        Bird's '84 Celtics had 4 HOFers and beat the Lakers who had 5.

        Each got a win against a team that had more HOFers than theirs did. Pretty much a wash...
        Last edited by eaton53; 06-22-2014, 03:01 PM.
        DUTY NOW FOR THE FUTURE!!

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        • #19
          Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

          Larry bird was a warrior. he had the heart of a lion and a will to win greater than almost anyone that has ever played in the nba.

          lebron has neither.
          In the movie the Horse Soldiers, starring John Wayne and William Holden, there was a Colonel with one arm. Wayne and Holden fought him and the Col. basically gave up. He did this because he had reinforcements coming.

          Holden knew the Col. from his younger days. Wayne and Holden were discussing why he gave up. Below is the dialogue. The last response could be said about Bird, but not LeBron.

          Major Kendall: I don't understand a man like Miles giving up that easily.
          Col. John Marlowe: Maybe losing that arm took some of the fight out of him.
          Major Kendall: No... the man I knew could lose both arms and still try to kick you to death.

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          • #20
            Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

            Originally posted by echo77 View Post
            Did Bird ever get shut down by someone like Kawhi Leonard?
            I hope you're not suggesting Lebron did.

            Anyone suggesting that LeBron was in any way the cause for the Heat getting beat down in the Finals just can't be a serious basketball analyst.

            Did he not score enough? He averaged 28.2 PPG in basically four and a half games, while the Finals MVP averaged 17.8 PPG. LeBron also made 57 percent of his shots, despite the entire Spurs team collapsing on his drives. Forced to shoot from deep more, LeBron took over five 3s a game and made over 51 percent of them (14-of-27 overall). He added 7.8 rebounds and 4 assists per game, too, and the latter stat is so flawed to use as a barometer when considering how inept most of his teammates were at finishing shots in the Finals.
            http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/playo...n-mvp-rankings

            If 28/8/4 on 57% from the field and 51 from 3 is "shut down," you just must be a really good basketball player. All told his production was actually better in this year's Finals than last. The Spurs were just a lot better team.

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            • #21
              Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

              If 28/8/4 on 57% from the field and 51 from 3 is "shut down," you just must be a really good basketball player. All told his production was actually better in this year's Finals than last. The Spurs were just a lot better team.
              ;) I didn't watch any games. My assessment was because LeBron's position counterpart on the other team got the MVP.

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              • #22
                Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

                Originally posted by Dutz View Post
                In the movie the Horse Soldiers, starring John Wayne and William Holden, there was a Colonel with one arm. Wayne and Holden fought him and the Col. basically gave up. He did this because he had reinforcements coming.

                Holden knew the Col. from his younger days. Wayne and Holden were discussing why he gave up. Below is the dialogue. The last response could be said about Bird, but not LeBron.

                Major Kendall: I don't understand a man like Miles giving up that easily.
                Col. John Marlowe: Maybe losing that arm took some of the fight out of him.
                Major Kendall: No... the man I knew could lose both arms and still try to kick you to death.
                You mean like the black knight of Monty Python?

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                • #23
                  Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

                  This is a tough one. It's between Bird and LeBron. I can't decide. I have an argument for both. I'm leaning toward LeBron though...

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                  • #24
                    Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

                    Originally posted by treesap32 View Post
                    This is a tough one. It's between Bird and LeBron. I can't decide. I have an argument for both. I'm leaning toward LeBron though...

                    It's one of those things - on paper it's really close. In reality, I think it's less close than we imagine.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

                      So what does the new forum think of Ze Bron vs Bird?

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                      • #26
                        Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

                        As far as achievements, Larry Bird is All-Time best Small Forward. However, the game for SF position evolved into perimeter area in post-Bird era and Larry Bird would be destroyed on the defense nowadays.
                        Lebron James is the greatest athletic freak at Small Forward position. However he can shoot at top level only when he dribbles the ball a lot to get in the rhythm (making false impression of PG) and his drives to basket are all-time worthful only when he has 3 teammates spreading the defense (making false impression of PF). So-called versatility is hampered by his inability to play SF in its pure sense and team concept.
                        It comes down to Scottie Pippen and Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant is modern greatest SF scorer and Scottie Pippen (in his prime 1992-1997) greatest all-around SF player beating his peers in the defensive aspect of the game.
                        Both players would be phenomenal picks but I value team character and team defense slightly more than extra scoring skillset so I would pick Scottie Pippen.
                        My All-Time Team consists of Stockton at PG, Jordan at SG, Pippen at SF, K.Malone at PF and Olajuwon at C.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

                          How can you have this discussion and not include Dr. J? In his prime before he came to the NBA he was better than Bird and Lebron and it's barely close. Go watch the documentary on him and tell me he isn't the best.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

                            Originally posted by GenkiAG View Post
                            How can you have this discussion and not include Dr. J? In his prime before he came to the NBA he was better than Bird and Lebron and it's barely close. Go watch the documentary on him and tell me he isn't the best.
                            That's a fair point. I think in all of these debates the Bird detractors generally talk about how good the players around him were. But, I can see where Parrish, McKale and Ainge don't really amount to much without Bird: A) Drawing all the defensive attention and B) Being such a great passer to get these guys the ball right when and where they need it.

                            So picture those Celtics without Bird, but with Lebron - and they still win multiple titles possibly. The problem is, a lot of those wins came on Bird clutch shots. Something Lebron is notorious for shying away from. Substitute Bird with Dr. J and IMO they still win multiple titles - no doubt. Substitute Bird with Pippen and not a chance. They don't have enough offensive fire power. Kevin Durant? They probably win.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

                              Originally posted by joncolton View Post
                              Substitute Bird with Pippen and not a chance. They don't have enough offensive fire power.
                              Pippen in his prime led MJ-less Bulls to ECF Finals, where they got robbed in Game 6 and lost Game 7 to Knick s who lost Game 7 to Rockets. Bird could not guard nowadays small forwards, thats my point.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Greatest Small Forward of All-Time?

                                Gordon Hayward

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